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Some history, some opinions Posted by caf - April 05, 2002 at 11:27:18am 1024x768x32 - Mozilla/4.78 [en] (Win98; U) In Reply to: You know, I’ve come to much the same conclusion recently... Posted by Bigfry - April 05, 2002 at 12:16:56am:
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See the link to maps below for a site that has a lot of basic history and information about the Arab-Israeli situation. You know, as far as I can tell historically, there have been several nations that occupied the lands of Israel and Palestine, but there has only ever been one country there. Prior to Israel in ancient times there were several nations there (basically city-states, Gen. 15:18-20, Exodus 3:17). Then when Israel moved into the land (about 1450 B.C.), they coexisted (with conflicts) with several other nations in the land (Judges 1:21, 27-35, 3:5-6)for about 400 years, until Saul-David-Solomon established the kingdom of Israel - both a nation and a country. That country of Israel existed until 586 B.C. when it was overwhelmed by the Babylonians, and much of the nation destroyed or deported. Thereafter the nation of Israel existed without a country per se until about 165 B.C. when the Hasmoneons won independence from the Syrian-Greek kingdom, and existed as a country again for about 100 years, until Rome made them subject in about 60 B.C. After that, the land of Israel-Palestine was subject to foreign powers until 1947, no country there. So in all of history, there has been a country there basically three times that I know of, the Saul-David kingdom for about 500 years, and the Hasmonean kingdom for about 100 years, and now modern Israel since 1947. Otherwise, the land has been either segmented into city-states or else under foreign dominion. In modern times, after the medieval conflicts (including Islamic expansionism and the Crusades), the land was ruled as several administrative districts by the Turks for about 400 years, until 1917 when the British gained control at the end of WWI. The British made some exceptionally bad decisions about the region, and gave up control at the end of WWII, during escalating conflict between the British, the Jews and the Arabs (not all Palestinians are Arabs, in fact most of the Arabic population of Palestine seems to have been a product of post 1880 immigration). The U.N. took a hand, and partitioned the land into two states, one Arabic, one Jewish, with Jerusalem as an international city in 1947. One result was the first Arab-Israeli war (though they'd already been in conflict) which the Israelis won in 1948. We could go on with the history, but here's the rub. No one is right in this mess. The Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories, and their treatment of Palestinians who work in the Jewish cities, has been wretched. People grow bitter under such repression. Meanwhile, the Palestians (particularly Arabs) have been determined to anihilate the state of Israel ever since its formation, with no compromise. The Israeli treatment of Palestinians isn't much better than the South African apartheid, but the Palestinian sentiment has always been radically antagonistic and dependant (now more than ever) on terrorism. Meanwhile, the Arab nations have played political games, using the Palestinians rather than ever trying to actually resolve their situation. The Palestinians have exactly the same claim on statehood that the Israelis have, namely the U.N. partition of 1947. Neither group has any other modern claim of nationhood, neither has existed as a country prior to 1947. The Israelis can't negotiate with people who will settle for nothing less than their annihilation, and the Palestinians grow ever more desperate, bitter, and violent as they see their position justified by Israeli oppression. During my brief visit to Israel in 1998, I could see that the Palestinian situation was bad, and that the Israeli prejudice was/is a big problem. I talked to a few non-Israelis who were nominal Christians, not Arabs and not Moslems. While they were not vitriolic in their attitude toward Israel, it was clear that they were by and large an underclass in Israeli society. They are people caught in the middle of what have become unmanageable animosities. There are a lot of them. I think it will be amazing (though not impossible) if this current conflict is contained, rather than growing into a regional conflict, or worse. Despite the wrongs that Israel has done in its continued occupation of Palestinian territories, because of the nature of the violence against Israel, I don't think there's much choice except to support them, but U.S. support in notably fickle. When a society comes to the place that it will celebrate the destruction of its own children in the process of destroying men, women and children engaged in ordinary pursuits, there isn't much room for discussion left. And that's deplorable. When there is no respect for human life, violence is the only likely outcome. But how do they kill enough people to make any difference, short of genocide? The violence is almost inevitable, but it is not a solution.
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