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I want to commend you for studying for yourself. Many people are discouraged from studying by their leaders who only pick out scriptures that fit their belief, while totally disregarding scriptures that may contradict their doctrine. We should use ALL the Bible, not just portions that agree with what we think. I believe that a true church will allow everyone to either give their opinion, or ask questions. That way we all become one body of believers. Otherwise how could the little toe communicate with the rest of the body if it was not connected in some way? Our connection comes by communicating. Amos 8:11-13 lets us know that the days are coming that the famine in the land is not for bread or water, but for hearing the word of God. I believe that time is now. There are very few church going people who have been a bliever in Christianity for years, who read the Bible with an open mind. Most read it to fit what they have been taught. If we take seriously what Jesus said; "take up the cross, and follow me", and ask what the religious leaders thought of Him, we would see that they were against what He taught. So, the closer that we come to understanding the TRUTH of God's Word, expect the religious leaders to also reject what we believe, just like they did Jesus. The main thing for us to do when reading the Bible, is to be completely open to what it really says, and to be honest enough to ourselves, to check out what someone else tells us that it says. Personally, I have had this happen several times over the years. Someone will say "the Bible says this or that". They have heard sermons on "this or that" so many times, that they believe it is in the Bible. So I politely ask them to show me in the Bible where it says "this or that". Many times the thing they heard someone say, will not be found in the Bible. This is where we should be careful about what we teach, or don't teach, i.e. we had better not knowingly take away from God's Word either (Rev 22:18,19). First of all, I want to let you know that I do not believe in evolution. In Gen 1:11, 21, 24, and 25, everything was made after its own kind. Everything God created, was to stay that way, and not slowly change into something else. Also, John 1:1-14 makes it very clear that all things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made, and the light (God) shineth in darkness, and the darkness (Satan) comprehended (Gr. katalambano, kata = down, lambano = to get hold of, i.e. to have offered to one) it not. Satan had that light offered to him, and didn't accept It. Instead, he wanted to be god himself.
Satan is a real person, not just some evil force. In Isa 14:16 he is referred to as a man. Ezek 28:2 and 9, calls the devil a man. Even in Rev 13:8 he is referred to as a man. Also Compare the name Gabriel. It means "MAN of God". So God's children are called men. Remember the 2 angels who came to Lot. They were called men. Etc. etc. Do we just pass these, and many many more scriptures, off, by calling them gray areas, or calling them figurative because they don't agree with what we think? We shouldn't study that way. We should not ignore any part of God's Word. "All" scripture was given by inspiration of God (2Tim 3:16). And no prophesy of the scripture is of any private interpretation (2Pet 1:20). Now, your comment on Ben's question about making Gen 1 into figurative language rather than a literal historical account. Do we ignore the fact that grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit trees were already here on the 3rd day, BEFORE the sun, moon, and stars were created on the 4th day? I believe this to be literal. Are we supposed to try to change it into something figurative, to make it fit our doctrine? No!! As I wrote earlier, (comment 652) there are many more places that support the gap theory, "IF" we use ALL the Bible, instead of just those portions that agree with what we think.
Let's check out this Hebrew word "tohuw", in Gen 1:2. Let's remember Isa 45:18, and understand that God is saying that He did not create the earth "tohuw". So when we compare it to Gen 1:2, where the earth was "tohuw", we should recognize that something is "literally" wrong here. Common sense tells us that if He did not create it "tohuw", then it became that way. In Gen 1:2, the same Hebrew word "was", was transalted to "became" in Gen 2:7, where the man "became" a living soul (creature). When we think of "man" [`adam = flesh man, a human] as the very beginning of our existence, we are calling God unfair. See Rom 9:10-23, and notice that God favored Jacob over Esau, even while they were still in the womb. In verses 20-23 God lets us know that He can place one individual into a vessel fitted to honor, while He places another into a vessel fitted to destruction. Does that sound like a fair God IF our very existence began in the womb? No!! It depends on what our behavior was in the 1st earth age, as to which type of flesh body we are placed into during this 2nd earth age. Whether in a body with a brain that has a lot of self control, and has a lot of guidance from God's Holy Spirit, or one with very little or no self control, without Spiritual guidance.
Also do we just overlook God blinding some, stopping the ears of others, hardening the heart, or sending the spirit of delusion on some? If our existence did begin in the womb, then that would make God unfair. But the Bible tells us that God is a just God (Isa 45.21). If this is all properly understood, then those whom God blinded, He hid understanding from them to keep them innocent by keeping them ignorant. Then, since God knew they had NO chance of understanding during this flesh age, they could have their one and only chance to overcome, while in their spiritual (angelic) body, during the millennium. In your statement "the initial condition (empty) was not the purpose, habitation by man was the purpose". In the 1611 version of the Bible, there is a long letter written by the translators, that warns us of some English words that they may have used in error to represent the true meaning of a Greek or Hebrew word. So it is better if we go to the original definition of the word, rather than the suggested words to chose from, to find the real meaning of a word. First of all the definition of the word "tohuw" does not mean empty. "tohuw" means; to lie waste, a desolation (of surface), i.e. desert; figuratively a worthless thing; adverbially in vain. The Hebrew word "bohuw", in Gen 1:2 means "empty", a vacuity, i.e. an undistinguishable ruin. But, the Hebrew word "bohuw" was not in Isa 45:18.
In Matt 19:4, Jesus placed the creation of Adam and Eve at the beginning. The beginning of what? The beginning of this flesh age.
Look up the word "foundation" in Eph 1:4. It is the Greek word (katabole). It means A DEPOSITION, i.e. a founding, fig. conception. Now let's look up the word "deposition" in a Webster's Dictionary, to see what it means. The 1st definition of deposition is: The removal of a person from a throne or high office. So if we take the complete understanding of the Greek word "katabole", we should understand it this way: The removal of Satan as the cherub that covereth, and a new starting point. This explains being chosen and predestined at that time, at the ending of the 1st earth age, and the "beginning" of this flesh age. God "breathed" (puffed, inflated, blew hard) into Adam's nostrils the "breath" (puff, wind, vital breath, DIVINE INSPIRATION, INTELLECT, or an animal) of life (same word as living), and the man became a "living" soul (creature). To me, it is saying that God placed Adam's spiritual man into the dust (flesh), and that flesh became alive.
In your statement (The genuinely figurative language of Ezek 28 compares the king of Tyre to a guardian cherub, perfect in every way who was in Eden, blameless, until wickedness was found in him) you say that this is "figurative" concerning the king of Tyre. Verse 13 He was (past tense) in Eden, the garden of God; then it goes on to say "every precious stone was thy covering" they are named (this shows us that he was appointed as the high priest [Compare Exod 28:15-21]). Then, at the end of verse 13, "..in the day that thou was CREATED". Yes, Satan was CREATED perfect in all his ways, until iniquity was found in him. God did not create him with iniquity, he became that way after being created perfect. Next let's look at some of the verses you left out that shows some action from the king of Tyre, and what is destined to happen to him, and the explanation of the iniquity found in him, in verse 17, "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou has corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I WILL CAST THEE ("hishlaktiykaa" Hebrew future tense) to the ground, I WILL lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee". We will all behold him at the beginning of the millennium, when he is chained in the bottomless pit (Rev 20:1-3). Compare Isa 14:15-17. It is a shame that most of the NEW Bible versions have in error changed the tense from future to past, in Eze 28:16,17,18,and 19, when the Hebrew has it is locked in as future tense. There the main Hebrew word is shalak.
In the manuscripts it is "hishlaktiykaa". Let's break it down, by translating the main word, and all the small attached words.
"hi" = he, she, it, self, same, this, or that. (referring to God)
"shlak" = to throw out, down or away.
"tiy" = shall.
"kaa" = you.
So we have: He (God) throw down shall you. When correctly arranged, it reads: throw down shall I you.
If we go to Job 1:6-12, and Job 2:1-7, we can see that Satan was able to go to and from heaven at that time, actually showing action by him. Look up the Greek word kingdom. It means; a rule, or realm. All this is saying concerning Satan being in the presence of the Lord, is that he was able to be in that spiritual realm, present with the Lord. Where is heaven? Wherever God dwells, is considered heaven (Isa 66:1; Acts 7:49; Rev 7:10). We know that when God sets up his kingdom, it will be right here on earth, after it has been rejuvinated (2Pet 3:10; Rev 21:3). We also know that Eden is the garden of God (Ezek 28:13). Also, God was in Eden with Adam and Eve (Gen 3:8). Then in Rev 2:7, the tree of life in the midst of the paradise of God. Eden and Paradise are the same place (2Cor 12:2-4). In 2Cor 5:1-8, we find that while we are IN this flesh body, we are ABSENT from the Lord, and when we are ABSENT from this flesh body, we are PRESENT with the Lord. This shows us that while we are in this flesh body we cannot physically see God. It also lets us know that we have to be absent FROM our flesh body to be PRESENT WITH the Lord. So if we want to be with the Lord, we must give up this flesh body, which turns back to dust.
John 8:44 is referring to Cain as being the first recorded murderer. The reason Jesus said "ye are of your father the devil...he was a murderer from the beginning...", is because Cain's biological father was the devil (Matt 13:36-39, which is a literal explanation of the parable of the sower, wheat and tares). Cain and Abel were twins (Gen 4:2, the word "again" should be "continued in labor"). Notice that you will not find Cain listed in Adam's genealogy (Gen 5), even though he was first born. Cain's genealogy is given in Gen 4:17-23. The reason you won't find Abel, is because he had no offspring. Compare David to Cain. David had Uriah killed so he could have Uriah's wife Bathsheba. Yet David was still in the genealogical bloodline to Christ. He was not removed, even though the law "thou shalt not kill (murder), was already in effect. But during Cain's time, that law was not yet given.
So John 8:44 is letting us know who the Kenites are. Kenites are children of Cain. This is what the 2 churches (Smyrna and Philadelphia) know that all the rest of the churches don't know (Rev 2:9 and Rev 3:9). They know those who call themselves Jews, but are not, but are of the synagogue of Satan. Jesus was letting us know who those Pharisees were that He was talking to, in John 8. They were Kenites, offspring of Cain, who was the offspring of the devil.
Also read 2Thes 2:1-4. There we find the "son of perdition" sitting in the temple, calling himself god. Compare Isa 14:13,14, where Lucifer, the devil, says that he WILL sit upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north. Psalms 48:1,2 give the location (on the sides of the north) as Jerusalem. Yes, Satan is a real supernatural person. In the near future, when God sends him to the earth as antichrist (anti = instead of), most all the world will think he is Jesus. See 2Cor 11:13,14, the word "transformed" should be "disguised". So Satan will come disguised as an angel of light.
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