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Re: disparate stories
Posted by Louis - October 21, 2002 at 10:45:00pm
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In Reply to:
Re: disparate stories
Posted by caf - October 16, 2002 at 11:03:41pm:


Hi caf,

I do want to congratulate you on so much studying. I know that the Lord appreciates our interest in Him. And I know that you absolutely know that Jesus Christ IS the Word. In fact we should all know that Jesus is the Word. We should ask, WHICH WORD? The correct answer; the ORIGINAL WORD. Any time there is so large a translation as the Bible, there is some loss from the original language. In the case of our English Bibles, it is very easy to see, with all the different translations, how different something can be stated in one Bible compared to another Bible. That is why it is so very important to go to the first letter written, the manuscripts. Here is just one major example: In Ezek 28:16-19, compare the regular KJV to the NIV, NKJV, ASV, NASV, and other new Bible translations. It is a shame that many of the newer versions have in error changed these verses to past tense, when the Hebrew has it is locked in, as the future tense.
When King James had the Bible translated, he chose 47 of the most able scholars to do the translating. They started out in 1604, with 5,309 manuscripts, counting both Greek and the Hebrew, which included some Chaldee and Aramaic, and finished their work in 1611. Many of the 5,309 manuscripts were alike. Of those 5,309 manuscripts, they found 414, that had no “Massorah” protection, which they found to be corrupt. The massorah was a coded protection that prevented the writers, who did the copying of the Hebrew manuscripts, from making any mistakes. It locked all letters in place. The Greek had the Septuagint for their protection.
If we counted all the time spent by those 47 translators, and compared that time for 1 individual to have translated the first KJV Bible, that one person would have taken 329 years to complete it. And, of course, there were not near as many English words available for translating then, as there are now. Compare that 329 years to the time it took to write many of newer versions, of which many only had enough changed so they could get a copyright.
So when we believe that Jesus is the Word, we should know that means the original written word, not some translation. And instead of us always relying on comments and commentaries from others, it makes more sense to learn how to read from the FIRST letter God had written to us, the massorah protected manuscripts.

Now, referring to John 10:34. Regardless of how any of us believe, Jesus called the Pharisees gods (From the Hebrew, He quoted from Psa 82:6, gods = `elohiym). It probably doesn't agree with most people's doctrine, but it is Christ’s doctrine. The Hebrew word `elohiym was used 2,793 times in the Old Testament, always translated to God, gods, or god, with the exception of 12 times. Of those 12 times, `elohiym was translated to: Exceeding, angels, lands, mighty, mighty prince, judge, judges (3 times), very great, and goddess (2 times).

Genesis 1:31 is AFTER mankind was multiplying on the earth. Look at verse 30; “...and it was so”. That is the same as you or I saying; “and that is the way it was”. Verse 31 was written as a comment to all 6 days being completed.
In verse 28, we have the word “BLESSED”, in past tense. Then, in verse 31, it shows the end of that 6th day, after everything was completed. Remember, 1 day is to the Lord as 1,000 years, and 1,000 years as a day (2Pet 3:8). Could each of those 6 days of creation have been aproximately 1,000 years? I personally believe that it was.
Remember, Adam was told that in the DAY he would eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, that he would die. Well, we know that God is not a liar. So the day that God was talking about was one of His days, 1,000 years, because Adam only lived 930 years. He did die within that day, the Lord’s day, a thousand years.
I am trying to point all this out, so that at the end of each day of creation, when it says; “and it was so”, that meant that segment of creation was finished. That is why it is so important to notice in Gen 1:30, that everything up to that point of time was happening as it is written, THEN in verse 31 God looked at it ALL, and said it was very good.
As far as Adam telling what happened in Genesis, you would have to admit that he was still alive, and telling Moses what to write, because Moses wrote the Torah, which are the first 5 books of the original KJV Bible. Since Moses wrote Genesis chapters, why would he give such differences as he did in chapters 1 and 2, and chapter 3:17-19?

Here is one thing we should remember. The religious community disagreed with our Lord Jesus Christ's doctrine THEN, so if we are to take up our cross and follow Him, by trying to teach His doctrine NOW, then we, too, should also expect the same treatment from the religious leaders who teach the most popular doctrine today. Remember, Jesus said “you will be hated (or loved less) by all nations/men” (Matt 24:9; Mark 13:13; Luke 21:17).
Does the popular “rapture theory” belief, that most of the Christian churches teach, sound like a remnant of people, or a very few? No it doesn’t!! This false doctrine is taught as though it were a fact, and a HUGE number of people actually believe it. So when another Jesus (the false christ) comes to the earth, doing miracles, and telling everyone that he is setting up his millennium, don’t you think that most people will believe that he is Jesus, the Jesus they were taught who is supposed to come to fly them away? Jesus makes it clear to me that there will not be many who absolutely know that he is a fake. That is why the other people hate (or love less) that very small group. It is because they will be telling the world that the Jesus they are worshipping is the false christ, the antichrist (= opposite, or instead of, christ).
Compare Ezek 13:1-23. Verses 1-9, the vain prophets. Verse 5, the time element, “the day of the Lord”. Verses 10-15, the false doctrine. Verses 16-22, the explanation of that doctrine. Verse 20 makes it very clear. It lets us know that this particular false doctrine teaches people that they are going to fly to save their soul. Now if we think hard, what doctrine teaches people to fly to save their soul? The rapture doctrine. More later.

To see some of the things that are going to be happening just before Jesus returns, compare Isaiah chapter 29. Verse 1; “Ariel”; symbolizing Jerusalem. Verse 6 gives the time element. Verses 9-12; tells us of a book (the Bible) being given to those who are supposed to have understanding, who can’t explain what the person is asking them, so they tell the person it is sealed. Then it is given to another who is not looked upon as having much understanding, who also says he can’t explain it. Verse 13; God is saying that the fear (reverence) toward Me is taught by the precept (doctrine) of men. Verse 14; God is going to do a marvelous work among this people, a wonder (miracle), for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent (those with understanding) men SHALL BE HID. Compare this to Amos 8:11-13, Behold, the days come when I will send a famine on the land, not of bread or water, but for hearing the words of the Lord. This is speaking of the TRUTH of His Word.
If we study Isaiah, chapters 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, we will find the 6 woes; 1st woe, 28:1; 2nd woe, 29:1; 3rd woe, 29:15; 4th woe, 30:1; 5th woe, 31:1; 6th woe, 33:1. This shows us that all these chapters are very much connected. Isa 34, the destruction at the coming of the Lord. Then, in chapter 35, it defines the Lord’s day. There will be nothing unclean in the eternity, after judgment day.
Notice in Isa 30:10, how the people don’t want to have right things preached to them, but want to hear smooth things, and deceits told to them (Itchy ears??). Things that agree with what they think, rather than what the whole of God’s Word says?

To me, I cannot understand how anyone could believe that we first came into existence in the womb. For me to believe that, I would think of God as an unfair God. Why??
Read Rom 9:10-24. Notice in verse 11:
"(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to ELECTION might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)"
So keeping verse 11 active in our mind, let's re-read verses 9-14, without leaving 11 out.
As anyone can see, since the children were not yet born, and had done no good or evil (while they were in the womb), then God would be showing good favor to Jacob, and ill favor to Esau, which would be unfair, if their very existence began in the womb. BUT, if Jacob earned God’s favor in the 1st earth age, then God would have a perfect right to favor him.
Compare God’s fairness to Rom 9:14. Also see Deut 32:4; Job 4:17; Isa 45:21; Rev 15:3, etc.
Next see Rom 9:17-23, and notice that God can make one vessel to honor, and another to dishonor. If one vessel is fitted to destruction, and another fitted to glory, would that be fair, if their existence began in the womb, and, since in this flesh age they had not done anything good or bad? You see, it would be very fair, if their angelic behavior in the 1st earth age determined which type of body God would place them in. Don’t you see how unfair it would be, if there was no reason for God to place an individual into a vessel fitted to destruction, if that person had not earned that position? What about the vessel fitted to glory (the one predestined) before they were born? Would it be fair for that person to be predestined to eternal life, or be called ELECTION, if they had never done a thing to earn that position before they were placed in the womb?
Then, suppose that the person placed in a vessel fitted to destruction, could not alter their outcome, and would end up going to hell, since, in error, it is commonly taught that God knew everyone’s outcome before we came into existence? Would that also be fair? Of course that would not be fair. For those of us who have been given the knowledge to believe, God has allowed us a chance to choose whether to accept or reject Him in this flesh age. And for Him to already have known our outcome before we were born, and with no chance to ALTER that outcome, we would not have a true chance to change it.
God could absolutely know our outcome, and program us to end up with that outcome, but He doesn’t want a bunch of zombies going around chanting “I love you God”. He wants the real thing, so He gives us freedom to choose. He wants true love from us. And in order to get that, He would have to give all His children the complete freedom to choose whether we love Him or not. So we would have to be able to alter our outcome, without Him knowing who will, or will not make it, or it would not be considered free will to love Him, and we may as well be a bunch of robots doing exactly what we have been programmed to do.
Part of that belief comes from Rev 19:6. Compare Rev 19:6, the word “omnipotent”. It is the Greek word “pantokrator”, meaning the all-ruling God. Out of the 10 times it was used in the New Testament, it was correctly translated to Almighty 9 times. Only here in Rev 19:6 was it translated “omnipotent”. That is OK, but later some of the new Bible versions in error changed it to “omniscient”, meaning all knowing, which, if God wanted, He could be. But, again, if He allowed Himself to be all-knowing, then no one could alter what He already knows, and the one destined for hell would have no chance (no free choice) to change his outcome, which would show God to be unfair. So there would be no purpose for our being tested, if our outcome was already known before we were born.
I know there are many who teach that God can look into the future and already knows who will make it, and who won’t make it. If that is so, it would show that none of us have the freedom to alter our outcome, because no matter what we did, it would not make any difference in our final result. So, if that were true, then the person destined for hell, by God already knowing his outcome, absolutely can not change that fact.

Compare Rev 3:5, and ask how can a person’s name be blotted out of the book of life, after it was written in the book of life, since being written in the book of life is supposed to show their destiny? If God already knew their end, why then would He make a mistake by placing their name in the book of life, then have to erase it later? Also compare Rev 22:19, concerning those who take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part out of the book (or tree) of life. How could a person have a part in the book (tree) of life, and then be taken away, if their name was already written there? Well, according to the most common teaching that God already knows our outcome, He is supposed to know. So why then would He have the name removed, since He already had their name written in it? Does God make mistakes? No!!

Also, explain the 2nd death, which is another thing normally avoided. Rev 2:11; Rev 20:6; Rev 20:14; Rev 21:8. The Answer is in Ezek 18:4; Ezek 18:20; and Matt 10:28.
Notice in Rom 9:14-20, how God hardened Pharaoh’s heart. Would it be fair for God to send Pharaoh to hell, after God Himself hardened his heart? No!! If that were so, then, again, it would show God as being unfair.

This is the doctrine of Christ: Notice John 10:1-9; and John 14:6, that no person can come to God, except through Jesus.
So, for those who think that the beginning of our existence was in the womb, again, we would have an unfair God to those who honestly never had a chance to accept or reject Jesus. Because the ONLY way to God is THROUGH Jesus Christ.
Let’s go to extreme here, and go back in time, and ask; If an ordinary man, who lived their life in the jungle, having average intelligence, who was never able to ever hear about Jesus, who may have worshipped some stick, thinking it was some god to him, died without believing in Jesus, would he go to hell? As you know, many so-called religious leaders teach this to be true. And in so doing, they confess that their God is unjust. If your answer is; they were not to the age of accountability yet, that would be true. But, that does not erase the fact that the only way to God is through Christ Jesus. This is where the millennium comes in.
Wow!! If I thought the God that I serve was unjust, or unfair, I would be afraid that He might just laugh at me on judgment day, regardless of how good or bad I was, and burn me like a piece of bacon. BUT, I know that my God is the perfect Father, and is completely honest, fair, and just, and will keep His Word, because He is the Word.
Here is the answer to all this for all those who God knows never had a chance in this flesh age to overcome; They will get their one and only time of testing in the millennium, while in an incorruptible (angelic) body, because during this present time of testing, God Himself may have blinded them, or stopped their ears from understanding, or hardened their heart, so they would remain honestly ignorant, and thus innocent, and not have this flesh existence counted as their time of testing. There are NO 2nd chances.

Also, I feel so sorry for all those who are being prepared to worship the 1st Jesus who shows up here on earth. Most of them are not taught that there is a false Christ coming first. Yes, he has 2 horns like a lamb (looks just like Jesus), and he spake as a dragon (the devil). Rev 13:11.
Compare 2Cor 11:1-4, especially notice verses 2 and 4. Also 2Cor 11:14, 15; “Satan disguised as an angel of light”; and Luke 10:18.
We need no one to tell any of us WHEN the real Lord Jesus returns, for every eye shall see Him, every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that He is Lord. All we have to do when anyone who calls himself Jesus arrives, is to pinch ourselves, or stick ourselves with a pin to see if we bleed, or ask a blind person if they can see him, or see if ANYONE is not bowing to him, or if 1 person is not confessing that he is Christ, then we will know that he is not the real Jesus, but is an impostor. Compare 1Cor 15:50-55. See in verse (51), that we shall not “ALL” sleep (die), but we shall “ALL” be changed (52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST trump. Notice the last trump in verse 52 means just that, the 7th. There is no other trump to sound. The true Jesus arrives at the 7th trump, Rev 11:15. None of the other trumps announce His coming.

Oh, and by the way, I know that language is much more than word difinitions. That is why I use the Hebrew manuscripts, and know many of the small words that are attached to the main Hebrew word, which give the past, present, or future tense, and pronouns, articles, conjunctions, suffixes and prefixes. So I know that the word “host” in Gen 2:1, is pronounced “tsebaa’aam” in the original writings. It is “tsebaah” with the small attached word “am”. If you want to truly find out what it really means, go ask someone who fluently speaks Hebrew, and is accustomed to the old Hebrew from the Hebrew manuscripts. And YES, the small attached word “am” means; people, tribe, troops, flock, men, nation, and sometimes they. So even if we were in error to understand the word “tsebaah” to mean “what goes forth”, and then if we added the correct meaning with the attached word “am” to it, it would mean people, tribe, troops, flock, men, nation, or they that go forth. Besides, didn’t you know that the angels are sometimes called “stars”? Job 38:7; Jude 1:13; Rev 1:20; Rev 12:4. Please take the time to check this out with someone who really knows how to read and understand the old Hebrew manuscripts that have the Massorah protection.
The main Hebrew word “tsebaah” appears 487 times in the Old Testament. Of those times, it was translated:
“HOST OF HEAVEN, or equal to that”; Deut 4:19; Deut 17:3; 1King 22:19; 2King 17:6; 21:3, 5; 23:4, 5; 2Chron 18:18; 2Chron 33:3, 5; Psa 33:6; Isa 40:26; Jer 8:2; 19:13; 33:22; Dan 8:10; Zeph 1:5; and even if we count “tsebaah”, without the small attached word “am”, in Gen 2:1 as celestial bodies, instead of an army, we have only 19 times out of the 487 times it could have been translated to mean heavenly bodies, throughout the Old Testament.
“LORD OF HOSTS”; 1Sam 1:3, 11; 4:4; 15:2; 17:45; 2Sam 6:2, 18; 7:8, 26, 27; 1King 18:15; 19:10, 14; 2King 3:14; 2King 19:31; Psa 24:10; 46:7, 11; 48:8; 59:5; 69:6; 80:4, 7, 14, 19; 84:1, 3, 8, 12; 89:8; Isa 1:9, 24; 2:12; 3:1, 15; 5:7, 9, 16, 24; 6:3, 5; 8:13, 18; 9:7, 13, 19; 10:16, 23, 24, 26, 33; 13:4, 13; 14:22, 23, 24, 27; 17:3; 18:7; 19:4, 12, 16, 17, 18, 20, 25; 21:10; 22:5, 12, 14, 15, 25; 23:9; 24:23; 25:6; 28:5, 22, 29; 29:6; 31:4, 5; 34:4; 37:16, 32; 39:5; 44:6; 45:13; 47:4; 48:2; 51:15; 54:5; Jer 2:19; 5:14; 6:6, 9; 7:3, 21; 8:3; 9:7, 15, 17; 10:16; 11:17, 20, 22; 15:16; 16:9; 19:3, 11, 15; 20:12; 23:15, 16, 36; 25:8, 27, 28, 29, 32; 26:18; 27:4, 18, 19, 21; 28:2, 14; 29:4, 8, 17, 21, 25; 30:8; 31:23, 35; 32:14, 15, 18; 33:11, 12; 35:13, 17, 18, 19; 38:17; 39:16; 42:15, 18; 43:10; 44:2, 7, 11, 25; 46:10, 18, 25; 48:1, 15; 49:5, 7, 26, 35; 50:18, 25, 31, 33, 34; 51:5, 14, 19, 33, 57, 58; Hos 12:5; Amos 3:13; 4:13; 5:14, 15, 16, 27; 6:8, 14; 9:5; Mic 4:4; Nah 2:13; 3:5; Hab 2:13; Zeph 2:9, 10; Hag 1:2, 5, 7, 9, 14; 2:4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 23; Zech 1:3, 4, 6, 12, 14, 16, 17; 2:8, 9, 11; 3:7, 9, 10; 4:6, 9; 5:4; 6:12, 15; 7:3, 4, 9, 12, 13; 8:1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 9, 11, 14, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23; 9:15; 10:3; 12:5; 13:2, 7; 14:16, 17, 21; Mal 1:4, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14; 2:2, 4, 7, 8, 12, 16; 3:1, 11, 12, 14, 17; 4:1, 3. We have “the Lord/God of hosts” 269 times, where it was referring to people.
The other 190+ times, the Hebrew word “tsebaah” was translated to men, army, armies, his army, their armies, mine armies, soldiers, war, to war, the war, warfare, to battle, host, hosts, the host (referring to people), service, and, into service.

I have so many more things that I could bring up. Whether someone believes what I say, that is not important. But, these things that I bring up would encourage people to study more for themselves. I think anything that inspires people to want to study God’s Word for themselves, is helpful, even if it causes them to try to prove someone wrong. I just pray that some of the people who read all the comments on this board will check what is written, like the Bereans, in Acts 17:11, and do some studying on their own, and be left alone to think for themselves.

May the Lord Jesus Christ richly bless those people with more understanding, who study to show themselves approved, who know there is much more to God’s Word than what is normally taught.

Louis


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